(Mortis Pattern Dreadnought made by Ron from From the Warp/Black Dot Barrel Studios)Hey everyone, Xethik here with a list of my own. I've been a bit too busy to get to deep into the new codex, but to say the least I'm very excited. I'm sure most readers will have some ideas of their own or have seen some other bloggers post their lists, but I haven't seen much like this list I'm messing around with. It isn't the mostĀ competitiveĀ (as those seem to be spamming Coteaz+Henchmen, sadly) and I didn't really get into anything too new, so I will be posting up some more lists soon, I hope. What strikes me about this list (and a few others for that matter) is that at 2 thousand points the list only runs four tanks in the Land Raider and three Rhinos, aside from the Dreads, and while it certainly qualifies as a mech list for GK I can't help but think that GK aren't meant to just put everything in transports like other Marine armies.
We just can't produce as many targets for the enemy's anti-tank and the points spent on it could be better spent on more bodies (and, ultimately, more Psycannons).Just an observation I've been making about the recent deluge of Grey Knight lists. I wonder if the best lists use Coteaz for a combination of cheap scoring Henchment and Grey Knights as the heavier shock troops.
Why so many daemon hammers? I would change the purifiers to incinerators for your anti horde and min them at 5 or 6. You could also lower one of the Strikes down to half size and make another in a Rhino for these points giving you an additional squad in a Rhino. Might is a must! You may not need the daemon hammers as much with might as well. Quickening is good and all but just give him a halberd and he is at initiative 6 anyways.
I like the list. Your list is definitely making me want to get out my crusaders again.Spaguatyrine.See my list at theback40.com. First off, I want to thank you guys for posting. Truly, I appreciate it.Secondly, I should probably clarify is that I didn't mean this to be an oh em gee mech list that focuses on vehicles, I just wanted everything in a transport, for now at least. My title was a bit misleading. Sorry about that.I agree that perhaps putting everything in a transport isn't necessary.
I'm considering putting everyone on foot, maybe a Land Raider, or even taking a bunch of Razorbacks with combat-squadded psycannons outside of it. So many options, it makes me so happy!It definitely seems the most competitive lists use Henchmen as dedicated transport-takers and some of the Grey Knight units to move out and actually take/contest objectives or table quarters. It won't be long until we see what the 'best of the best' list is, and I'm sure many of us won't be happy with it, heh.The reason I picked up so many Daemonhammers is to try to avoid getting stuck in close-combat with walkers and high toughness models. Plus, it helps for killing tanks in close-combat. Sure, I do have grenades and a lot of shooting, but I feel like they are worth it. Right now, at least. I agree on Quickening.
90% chance I'll be dropping it for Might at this point, perhaps dropping a master-crafted weapon or two for an additional power.I can't wait to get some test games in, I'll let everyone know how they go. Hi im jarrod can i get some feed back on this 1500 list. HQ: Ordo hereticus inguisitor with condemner boltgun and psyocculum -65pts. TROOPS: 2 five man strike squads with a psycannon in each (objective holders) -110pts each squad. ELITES: 5 paladins psycannon, brotherhood banner, 3 haliberds and 1 master crafted daemon hammer -325pts. FAST ATTACK: 2 squads of 10 interceptors 9 haliberds and a daemon hammer in each -315pts each squad. HEAVY SUPPORT: nemesis dreadknight personal teleporter, greatsword and heavy incinerator -260pts.
Hey Jarrod,While I love Interceptors and would love to run them similarly to you are in this list, I would really recommend either dropping them or downsizing them in order to pick up some more troops. You don't have much in the scoring department here, and if your enemy takes out your ten scoring models, you have no way to grab objectives. Remember, Grey Knights are not Fearless all around either, so you can end up running off the board, too. I wish I could give an alternative list to help out, but I'm really busy lately so I'll have to try to get back to you later.
I occasionally use my chaos version with my world eaters. It is expensive, yes. It also packs a punch with 2 x twin linked las and a twin linked heavy bolter.
The last couple of times I've run it, I did so with no units embarked on it as I figured out might help it's durability by having my opponent reconsider its threat priority. The land raider is not my go to choice primarily given the cost but it can be a good choice depending on your roster send who you're playing. Don't forget to bring a screening unit for it so it doesn't get charged.
Finally get to lay down some of my expertise with the Grey Knights.1) The low model count is irrelevant. The Gks ALWAYS have a low model count and to try and reverse that is futile.
And what your paying for isn't just a 'good' transport, its an 'Awesome' transport. Able to shuffle around your GKs and deal some damage. Despite what a lot of people say LRs are still hard to kill. Way I see it is if your gonna transport your elites shouldn't you use the elite transport?2) Haven't used a raven yet and in all honesty I don't plan to so someone else will have to cover this point.=D=. I've used one in my last game (first game with the new GKs, a 2000pts game vs IG). I used a Standard LR, because I wanted to have the two TLLC. It fared relatively well, serving as a bunker for some termies on an objective.
My opponent never managed to get a meltagun inside 12' as my two TLLCs and rifleman dread made sure no chimera or chimera-based vehicles got close or survived. In retrospective, while it made for an impregnable force on an objective, it was a bit overkill. While GKs have always been a low-model-count army, the paradigm have shifted. With the previous codex, it was a good strategy to hide your models in a LR. Now, I feel every turn not shooting is a waste.
For that same price, I could have gotten 5 more termies with another psycannon, which would have done almost the same damage vs AV12 vehicles.Phil. Thanks for the replies thus far.1) The low model count is irrelevant. The Gks ALWAYS have a low model count and to try and reverse that is futile.
And what your paying for isn't just a 'good' transport, its an 'Awesome' transport. Able to shuffle around your GKs and deal some damage. Despite what a lot of people say LRs are still hard to kill. Way I see it is if your gonna transport your elites shouldn't you use the elite transport?Actually in a sense it is very much relevant. Less models means that each loss you take counts for more, and the LR is a model that can be taken out with a single well-placed shot by any melta, lance or S9+ weapon. The points not spent on a LR could be used for more guns and more bodies.The only thing here is, whether or not its worth the cost and risk.
I used a storm raven in a 2000 battle earlier today and it did its job well (transporting my squad of 6 paladins and librarian) to the front lines. While I used a fairly cheap loadout (TLMM and TLAC with psyammo) it didnt win its points back in the typical sense, it soaked up a ton of fire and with a 3+ cover save (with flatout movement and shrouding) along with the option to shoot one weapon, it makes for a great choice.Also remember that it has fortitude as well so there is a great chance to shake off shaken/stunned resultsJust wanted to touch on how much of a fire magnet this model is.
Basically it absorbed 8 dark lance hits and 2 blaster hits over two turns once it came in allowing my rhinos to move into position along my refused flank. Without taking that fire the game would have been very different. While I did loose the game, it came down to a roll of 1d6 and a 4+ cover save which I failed and lost 1 objective to none on the 7th turn - if the game ended any of the turns before it would have been a win for the GKs.just my two cents on the abilities of the SREDIT - also, if you want flamer goodness, you could drop a dread with TL Heavy Flamer and NDF with flamer and psyflame ammo. This could potentially wreck things in cover (I will be testing in my next game)Edited by bearden441, 08 May 2011 - 02:34 AM. My Draigostar coming out of a Redeemer hasn't disappointed me yet.Also, Redeemer is pretty nasty to armies that love to hug cover. S6 AP3 just decimates.
Grey Knight Land Raider Crusader
To be honest, you'd rarely even need Psyflame.I was kinda wondering if the +1 str would be worth it on the flamestorm cannons. They instagib T3 units but S7 won't make a difference over S6 on T4. The only real benefit would be the possibility of glancing av13 and wounding S5 on a 2+. But at that range psybolts on the assault cannon or taking the multi melta would be better choices. And both of those together would cost the same amount of points as the psyflame upgrade.
I agree that the redeemer, at least at close ranges, is a better choice than the vanilla raider or crusader. The crusader is gimped by the psybolt ammo.I really like the idea of the redeemer moving flat out until close to the enemy and letting out a purgation squad with 4 incinerators or psycannons. They'd be cheap with incinerators and they are the only unit in the book that can carry a teleport homer which would be extremely useful to get all your troops on the battlefield without foot slogging it. Also you'd still have one heavy support choice for a rifleman dread. Here's my 2 cents on LR's.What are Land Raiders most afraid of? Melta.What does Melta need to do to be effective?
Get close.How do they get close? Well, you either run forward and they run forward and you meet in the middle, or they block you and Deep Strike in melta next to your land raider with a garbage unit and blow it up, giving what's inside something stupid to charge.How can we negate these issues?1. Use Godhammers.
Long Range keeps you out of melta range and from getting blocked. Make them scoring, with either Termies, or GKSS.2. Warp Quake Deep Strikers.
How can the answer be improved? Disable windows 10 tiles.
Got a problem with Deep Strikers? Strike Squads have the answer.Since you're trading out your Heavy Support Slots where the valuable psyflemen come in, it's best to have similar roles filling that slot, and Godhammers are great for that. Of course, you'd have to build a gunline-esque army to really use them, it is the 'best' way to use Land Raiders in GK, as you can effectively remove the weaknesses they have.
Crusaders and Redeemers HAVE to go into mid field where Melta is prominent, and any smart opponent can block and kill easily, no matter what they could be carrying a smart opponent can outplay you and make it so they can only charge a crap unit and then get shot up.If you want something to transport your ridiculously wasteful deathstar unit, go for the Stormraven, it's faster and isn't as prone to Melta-death, but if you really want to use Land Raiders, try the Godhammer in the back field, it'll annoy the crap out of your opponents. Here's my 2 cents on LR's.What are Land Raiders most afraid of? Melta.What does Melta need to do to be effective? Get close.How do they get close? Well, you either run forward and they run forward and you meet in the middle, or they block you and Deep Strike in melta next to your land raider with a garbage unit and blow it up, giving what's inside something stupid to charge.How can we negate these issues?1.
Use Godhammers. Long Range keeps you out of melta range and from getting blocked. Make them scoring, with either Termies, or GKSS.2.
Warp Quake Deep Strikers. Got a problem with Deep Strikers? Strike Squads have the answer.Since you're trading out your Heavy Support Slots where the valuable psyflemen come in, it's best to have similar roles filling that slot, and Godhammers are great for that.
Of course, you'd have to build a gunline-esque army to really use them, it is the 'best' way to use Land Raiders in GK, as you can effectively remove the weaknesses they have. Crusaders and Redeemers HAVE to go into mid field where Melta is prominent, and any smart opponent can block and kill easily, no matter what they could be carrying a smart opponent can outplay you and make it so they can only charge a crap unit and then get shot up.If you want something to transport your ridiculously wasteful deathstar unit, go for the Stormraven, it's faster and isn't as prone to Melta-death, but if you really want to use Land Raiders, try the Godhammer in the back field, it'll annoy the crap out of your opponents.Though survivable, annoy is the key thing it does. You get 2 reroll shots of lascannon. I think that's an amazingly low amount of firepower for the price tag. You see you pay money for a LR to be a transport.
This argument basically says, don't use them to transport anything. LRC and LRR are very survivable and if someone has to dedicate units to killing them, then that's just fine with me. There are ways of protecting your vehicles from melta weapons, like those flamestorm cannons that tend to kill everything that gets close. The whole point of a LR is being a transport, by sticking it in the backfield you waste its potential. You risk less, but I don't think you win games by risking nothing.
Of course, I play the Tau a lot and it doesn't matter how much in the backfield my LR's are, they still die just as fast. I never said don't put anything in it, I said put GKSS or Terminators in it to make them scoring. I just don't recommend putting a deathstar in it that needs to get to close combat ASAP.
It's a more reserved use of the Godhammer, but by no means don't take advantage of its Assault Vehicle nature, just use it a little less gung ho.Use it for counter charging, fire support, and scoring protection/mobility. It won't get blown up as fast and over the course of the game can probably make its points back rather than moving midfield and getting melta'd, or blocked by a transport or skimmer. Just because your opponent doesn't get 2d6 with melta doesn't mean it can't blow up your SR.
They need a 4+ to glance/pen, so they have at least a 50% chance to glance your SR with a single dice with melta from 12' if it is on a standard trooper. They don't even need to get within 6' to get double dice pen.Smoke+shrouding can make a LRR very survivable for a turn, and after that, you should be in range to deliver your deadly cargo.Armor 12 on the SR makes it just as vulnerable to everything as every other transport in the game, S9 & S10 will pop it in no time. Admittedly, that's been my experience, and my LRRs tend to last a good long while. Warp quake is quite nasty, just have a Psyback following behind your LRs, no worries about deep strikers with melta!Also, while a backfield TLLC- LR is a good objective holder, its doesn't exactly put out frightening firepower.Edited by Daedalus Templarius, 09 May 2011 - 02:22 PM.
Use Godhammers. Long Range keeps you out of melta range and from getting blocked. Make them scoring, with either Termies, or GKSS.2.
Warp Quake Deep Strikers. Got a problem with Deep Strikers? Strike Squads have the answer.Option 2 FTW.Warp Quake has given new life to the venerable Godhammer pattern Raider. Without it, there's virtually no reason not to prefer the Crusader pattern, or even the Redeemer.But with Warp Quake, nobody can deep strike into melta range of your scoring land raider while it blasts away at distance.Strike Squads inside Godhammers are awesome, Awesome, AWESOME.If you want to deliver Terminators into combat, use the Crusader, Redeemer, or a Stormraven.
If you want more long range shooting in your army, put Strike Squads inside of Godhammers.